Stikpusher wrote:.... A hundred "attaboys" will not help you improve....
I am going to have to disagree...in a way.
Back when I started back up again (with FSM)...I got a lot of "attaboys"....but I KNEW my stuff wasn't really all that great. Those "attaboys" drove me to push myself that much more, to a point that I actually deserved them (I think/hope!). I am a much better modeler these days, because of it.
At the same time, I'm pickin up what you're putin down...an "attaboy" doesn't say "hey, next time, try spraying light coats of paint, so you don't get that "bleed" under the tape, and you'll end end up with a perfect line"...or whatever. I'm all for that type of critique...or..."here's what I do in that situation". Take it, or leave it...there's no be all-end all method to completing a great model.
I don't disagree with you on that Fermis. I love hearing nice job as much as the next guy. It certainly helps your confidence to have the approval of your fellow modelers. But I know that I personally learn how to improve when someone points something out and suggests how to improve that.
Yes, there are multiple techniques we can take or leave, either in building or in finishing. But if we don't say something in a constructive way to offer ways to improve or pitfalls to watch out for, we are not doing any favors to anybody.
"Surely I have made my meaning plain? I intend to avenge myself upon you, Admiral. I have deprived your ship of power, and when I swing 'round, I intend to deprive you of your life."
Stikpusher wrote:I don't disagree with you on that Fermis. I love hearing nice job as much as the next guy. It certainly helps your confidence to have the approval of your fellow modelers. But I know that I personally learn how to improve when someone points something out and suggests how to improve that.
Yes, there are multiple techniques we can take or leave, either in building or in finishing. But if we don't say something in a constructive way to offer ways to improve or pitfalls to watch out for, we are not doing any favors to anybody.
To Thomas' point, the parties that were so bent on the previous discussions are gone. Having read this with my good eye, I think I like the "constructive critique" better than "criticism". Less threatening. I give a bunch of "attaboys" since most everyone, well everyone, is better than me. I can do some very okay stuff, but it isn't yet in the league of what I see here. What I see here helps me be better.
It is also good to remember you are looking at pictures.
I'm tired now.
To make each build less crappy than the last one. Or, put another way, "Better than the last one, not as good as the next one!"..
Something that seems to be missing from this is just who are we talking with?
This might take a while to read, since I am a slow typist, thinking as I try to craft this post.
But, when we see a model posted for our enjoyment, which I think is the point of almost all posted pictures on this and many sites, are we looking at a person's second model ever built in his lifetime, or a guy that has been building for 50 years.
I think knowing this changes what the poster expects from us in our feedback.
Examples seem to come to mind. There is a Paratroop on here, he's been building for something like 3 years before plastic was invented. When I see one of his Tracked Vehicle models, I always think that I am safe in assuming that he has by now learned not to glue his fingers together with Super Glue (not too often, anyway) or leave the track return idlers off the model.
About all I could ever say to him would be things like "good model", just to acknowledge that I had seen the pictures he posted.
If 15 of us that were around when the dinosaur bones melted are looking at someone's third model he ever built,,,,,we have to guess whether he or she wants to know if it is good as it looks, or needs some small thing done differently to improve their skills.
Our own attitude about the hobby and our own models can color what we say as well. I know that some are building models to "constantly learn new things, and increase their skill level" even after they have learned to build pretty good models. On the other end is a person like me, I have known how to build models for a very long time, and my goal is to just build them, not learn 25 new ways to apply glue each year from now until I pass on. Knowing what a modeler is trying to do and learn can change which posts are helpful to them.
I have rethought that "attaboy" thing a bit,,,,,,,,,and I realize that even though it doesn't critique a model at all, at the very least it lets the poster know that someone looked at his model, and doesn't hate it. And for many of us, that is probably all we want from our models in the first place. Think of the internet as a "model shelf that moves through time instead of space". With our physical shelves, we want people to look at one model after another, and not give up after only looking at Two models. That is about the same as we want online, just for people to see what we did last week, this week and next week.
Hmm, just an Auld Phart, rambling on in the morning while the coffee brews.
I welcome all criticism. One plus side to being half a century old, is I build for me and nobody else. Of course it doesn't hurt that I tend to be a bit OCD when it comes to detail. I have a habit of constantly researching both before and during my builds.
I'm always appreciative of any helpful hints, or info I can get, and am not conceited enough to think I can't improve. I always seem to learn something.
Ironically, whenever I meet one of those rivet counting know it alls, 90% of the time they have no work of their own to show. Funny how that works.
The day you think you're above improvement as a model builder, you should move on to another hobby.
RexCag wrote:
I have rethought that "attaboy" thing a bit,,,,,,,,,and I realize that even though it doesn't critique a model at all, at the very least it lets the poster know that someone looked at his model, and doesn't hate it. And for many of us, that is probably all we want from our models in the first place. Think of the internet as a "model shelf that moves through time instead of space". With our physical shelves, we want people to look at one model after another, and not give up after only looking at Two models. That is about the same as we want online, just for people to see what we did last week, this week and next week.
Joe, no offense meant to you at all. But I have always disagreed with this quote.
"The day you think you're above improvement as a model builder, you should move on to another hobby."
A very many things in this world are things that you just learn to do, and then do it for decades, simply because you enjoy doing them. I believe that for me, model building is one of those things.
There is no "hierarchy of needs" in model building. We don't need to learn 25 ways to glue things together with liquid cement. We only need to learn how to use it,,,,,,,and then do that for 300 models.
My end product for model building is 300 well assembled models, not 50 models that I know 7,000 different techniques for assembling them.
I spend the "learning part of my life" on all the other things that I don't know how to do, or knowledge I haven't learned yet. After all, reading books is an activity that brings satisfaction from the actual doing part, not learning 25 different ways to read. I confine my "model learning" to learning how to use a replacement product when one of my favorites is discontinued, or for when things happen like my fairly recent forced switch from Enamels to Water based Acrylics.
I'm perfectly content not knowing how to install 1/32 Spitfire engine cowl magnets, since I am near 60 and enjoy building 1/72 Naval aircraft.
If this were a competitive sport, then yes, don't get complacent with your tire changing, the angle you attack a turn on a track, or the way you swing the bat. But, changing spark plugs or auto batteries on your hot rod in the garage are things you "just do", you don't learn new techniques each time you do it.
Once a person learns to "do it right",,,,,,,we can just quit learning and go do it.
Just thought of an example that ties "Critique" in with "always learning."
Biplane rigging. A lot of people struggle with finding the method that works for them, and that they enjoy doing.
I have a method that I learned back in the pre-internet days,,,,,,,,I don't think it would help my "growth as a modeler" one bit to try one of the other 8-10 methods and post a pic online. Only to read "I can see the paint spots where you touched up the holes that your fishing line went through the wings" All I would have learned is that I should have stayed with the method I've used since 1981, lol.
I have no problem with "constructive criticism". I know my models are not on par with what I'd like them to be so if someone has a better way/technique of doing something, please tell me. If I missed or screwed up something, let me know cause I might not know about it.
Mike
Sponsored by Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, Saab, BAE, and Dassault
